(08/2009 - 10/2009 ) General Discussions [Closed]

knife:
- we don't want noobs thinking they should be able to survive with it... it's a very secondary ability, making them think they can just attack zombies melee will make them die even more than they already do
- no need to nerf it, it's not that powerful already if you think about how the zombies have to close enough to attack you(or almost) to be triggered

night vision: streets are well-lit already

women and children: they have no attack animation, that's why they aren't used... been discussed before

prespawned zombies: with a flare or a scope, someone could simply take them out when they are waiting... also making gates everywhere would slow down the gameplay by a lot

the Madiggan's group: they are waiting for the players to start... why should the game start before anyone do anything?

I didn't take the time to read everything in here, but I find that when playing on hell there is a big lack of sufficient ammo on the map. This is likely due to the fact that everyone is firing pretty non-stop. Increased ammo amount on the map would be an good improvement.

Also, have you given any thought to adding more skills to the officer ability section?? After I reached LTC and got expertise I realized that the only thing left to unlock is the supply drop, which in my humble opinion could use a bit more mana anyways. For how long it takes to reach GEN rank I wouldn't be against making it a bit o/p. I will think of ideas for abilities and post later.

Gimli.SoG

I was wondering if it would be possible to get a gate skin for the map... Not to be too critical, but with so much visual focus on gates, from what I've seen, an elven gate in the apparent San Francisco setting looks out of place. Is there no alternative to replace it?

Just my first thought at a glance.

I can't think of anything else, really, but like Gimli said, it might be a good idea to add some more interesting options for officer ranks. It could be somewhat bland for players ranking up to not see much of an advantage.

Also, I was wondering, what do you gain when you rank up? Does it affect your unit stats in any way, like NotDA? If not, would that be something to consider?

I'll have more later. Thanks!

LordJhredmo wrote:Also, I was wondering, what do you gain when you rank up? Does it affect your unit stats in any way, like NotDA? If not, would that be something to consider?

I'll have more later. Thanks!

http://www.dotd-stars.com/dotd-6-intro-tutorials-f2/dawn-of-the-dead-ranks-and-unlock-t831.htm
you unlock classes and gain abilities
and you get more health and mana too...

Thank you, sir. I've seen that page. Is it that few and rare units unlocked by ranks? Only four total and the last one is at Captain?

Still seems a little bland.

well in beta 7, there is more.... i think only the first row (roflman, medic and scout) is available at 0 xp...

still... the classes aren't there to replace the older ones, they all have some different purposes...

still... it's a nice progression... and when you're playing a lot, you unlock stuff pretty fast and you feel like you have a lot more options in the game than before...

I definitely agree with gimli on his critic. Ammo its a severe shortage in HELL. Even if u have an eng spammin it all the time, and ur scout non stop ammo search and nothing more...u wont get enough for 8 players firing non stop against big dogs, HP-Huge Gargs, etc.

Remember that since Zombies have more hp and more armor in hell, which make it harder, but ur based damage remains the same, that means it takes more bullets to kill a single Zomb. Which means u need A LOT more ammo for LESS time than other diff-modes.

Serius should really take this into account ^^.

-----------------

New ideas i've had this weekend:

Items idea:

- Napalm Nade Launcher: Basically a Secondary weapon with the AOE of the nade launchers we already have, BUT this one will leave napalm fire on the floor like demo. Would be usefull and nice, maybe it could be a lvl 3 weapon.

- USP: Ill keep annoying u with this. I hope we see some pistols , at least one of it as a basic Secondary weapon lvl 1. The USP would have low dmg (like 50?), but it wont have a CD like shotty or mac, so u can spam it (like med deagle, but a lot more weaker). Max ammo 12.

- Some fun items >_<. I don't know... like sandvich . Maybe a pack of cuban ciggars which increase ur concentration (therefore ur dmg), but decreases ur ms (lungs ownt) i dont know...something like that would be good ^^.

Mission based ideas:

- I've seen that the power plant has some barricades there. What i dont understand is that, after this massive zombie attack, who stayed at the power plant and made them ? I think that we should see more NPC Survivor action. I mean come on, we saved some civs who only had an axe!. Where are all those americans who have like a whole arsenal on their house?. Maybe easy killable npcs...which will die doesnt matter what u do...but it would add more realism, definitely ^^.

- Secondary missions are something excellent that should be improved. ppl already gave some ideas. I think a secondary mission based on a secret stash of ammo and weaps is needed, specially for mid-late game.

General ideas:

- It would be nice to see a usable "car" or "bus" on the map. Maybe mana based for the gas, so u cant use it for always, and it can load up to 2 marines?. And it only attacks when have ppl in it, the more ppl the more dmg?. Of course it wouldn't be too strong, otherwise would be lame. But it would be fun for scouting or go rescue someone who died in open ground ^^

- As gimli said, we need some new officers abilities. or at least between expertise and general, getting some "lvl up" on previous skills (which i guess its easier )... like better aura, improved combat knife, etc etc etc...

Ok I gave it some thought, I have found it difficult to come up with abilities that wouldn't make the officer uber.

1. More ammo. The cap is at 51 right now, all to often when I am getting items (when I am not scout) I find all 6 inventory slots filled with things I want to keep and I am maxed on ammo. I would like to bring ammo back to the group but can't. I then have to drop what ammo I have near group and walk back to where I remember seeing ammo.

2. Line of Sight. I realize this would have complications, but having a greater LoS could be something to look into.

3. Last Stand. My logic for this goes as follows, say you are about to be overrun by flesh eating zombies. Then your commander gives his last 5 second motivational speech, you charge out guns blazing aiming to take down as many zombies as possible. So making like a warcry ability that would increase attack damage (maybe even speed) by like 10% for 6-7 secs but as a side effect you lose armor (you are just aiming to kill as many as you can before being killed). Sorta like concentrate, just weaker and high ranking officer's can cast it (since you need a strong leader to make that 5 sec speech ;-P).

4. Dam Trees. I can't tell you how many times I choose Firebat or Demo just so I can Burn/Blowup trees. I don't care if you call it a C4 Tree Clearing Charge or a Pocket Chainsaw, if officer's had an ability to clear a tree (to improve line of sight) that would just make my day =D. Make it cost like 70 mana and 30 sec cd to use to help prevent over use.

5. The first skill we get while ranking is evasion, maybe an improved evasion later on?

I'll think of more later, like I said it's hard to come up with stuff that won't make officer's op.

I like all of your ideas, Gimli, other than 4 (Dam Trees). Not really realistic for an officer...

I'm used to NotDA, where ammo makes your MS go down (which I think is clever and realistic), so I'm always keeping low on ammo... But in DotD, I understand you can have 30 mags and have no penalties?

I agree, though... Officers need some spiffing up. I'd say, in agreement with Gimli, have officers have an increased critical hit level (dmg and % chance) (due to officers having more experience with weapons to have better aim more often), a higher evasion (officers learning better combat techniques on the field, specifically versus zombies from experience), and a higher line of sight makes sense (maybe even a higher MS along with this). This would increase by rank, starting from 2nd Lieutenant at lowest level, and then highest at General.

I do think, though, that at a certain point, certain stats should drop, considering an officer (such as a General) is older... not exactly the most fit soldier, and should maybe be made into more of a high profile target to protect for other players... Maybe a drop in MS/line of sight (and perhaps HP, if you want to make it interesting) to weaken officers. This would conflict with the last paragraph on the LoS increase for officers... so I think the level for LoS would then *drop* for officers from Brigadier General to General. I think this realism would be interesting to entertain for the map...

Thoughts?

Thank you.

Wow i really liked that idea of not raising some stats but rather lower them.

Moreover, not only about the realism of a general being older...but also in practical terms, an officer should be FAR more good than a PVT...meaning that lowering a lil their stats would make the game a lil harder...then better for the overall game.

I hope serius take a look at this comments and post his feedback (yes serius! we want to know we are heard xD! haha)

Thank you, Piscis, sir. I appreciate your review on it. And yes... an officer should be far better than a Private, in that regard, but depending on the realism of age, yes?

Aye, even if s3rius doesn't agree or doesn't add, I just hope it sparks some ideas and creativity in this area of discussion. =)

PiscisKnight wrote:Wow i really liked that idea of not raising some stats but rather lower them.

Moreover, not only about the realism of a general being older...but also in practical terms, an officer should be FAR more good than a PVT...meaning that lowering a lil their stats would make the game a lil harder...then better for the overall game.

I hope serius take a look at this comments and post his feedback (yes serius! we want to know we are heard xD! haha)

lol you should hear s3rius talking... he's always trying to find new ways to screw us... he's also saying that people with a lot of experience shouldn't have a huge advantage... so maybe he'll consider such a thing...

but there's also the fact that people who played 600-700 games(or 647 like lime).... might want to have better stuff than people starting up...

i think i remember something about NOTD: as you advance, you get bonus damage but reduced health or something...
it's kinda in the lines of that...

Mishotaki wrote:i think i remember something about NOTD: as you advance, you get bonus damage but reduced health or something...
it's kinda in the lines of that...

That's what I'm thinking. In my post, I mention better critical/evasion (maybe more damage, too), but with certain losses... I'm not looking to see officers lose out, but have a compromise, in a realistic sort of setting.

I agree, though. People who have played more games, naturally, need more of an advantage... but I just think there should be something like you mentioned in NotDA. It spices things up and makes it interesting... Also, it keeps the older players from getting cocky. They need to watch their step, when they have reduced LoS/MS...

Thank you.

I am not sure if this is the right thread, but you (s3rius) should start activating the medals as you release versions. I think you can only get one right now. If you need any ideas of what one must accomplish in order to receive a given medal just let me know!

Gimli.SoG

Well two are active, First Strike for beta testing/ideas/contributions and Veterancy, for gaining over 4000xp in the earlier versions of Dotd 6.

Nice work creating a factory, would be nice to add a side-boss in it like the ones in RE5 but without the chainsaw and hooded mask. S3rius, any chance on beautifying the map? It still feels dull, dry, empty and isolated in many, many areas

Gimli.SoG wrote:I didn't take the time to read everything in here, but I find that when playing on hell there is a big lack of sufficient ammo on the map. This is likely due to the fact that everyone is firing pretty non-stop. Increased ammo amount on the map would be an good improvement.

Take into consideration that hell is more difficult than it was intended to be. I haven't changed the ammo composition for Beta 7 and in the last versions it was OK.

I guess once the difficulty is adjusted it shouldn't be that much of a problem anymore.

LordJhredmo wrote:Thank you, sir. I've seen that page. Is it that few and rare units unlocked by ranks? Only four total and the last one is at Captain?

Still seems a little bland.

It's a little bit outdated. All early ranks now give you access to a new class. It's getting less later, though. Before I add new heroes I make sure they are unique in a way. I don't want doubles just for the sake of quantity.

Mishotaki wrote:i think i remember something about NOTD: as you advance, you get bonus damage but reduced health or something...
it's kinda in the lines of that...

You really want something like this?
I played NotD:AM a long time and I like the general idea of it, but it does make you very vulnerable to attacks, especially on higher difficulties. Remember that on hell, most attacks almost kill you.
If it's popular demand then I can change it, though. Not that I care if you die faster..

Gimli.SoG wrote:I am not sure if this is the right thread, but you (s3rius) should start activating the medals as you release versions.

My intention was to activate (most) medals in beta 8. It's not as easy as you might think. Coming up with realistic, original requirements that can also be realized in WC3 is kind of hard.

Gilorean wrote:Nice work creating a factory, would be nice to add a side-boss in it like the ones in RE5 but without the chainsaw and hooded mask.

I remember that one.. the Chainsaw Majini - that bitch killed me 5 times in a row on my first run-through!
Just now I am working on one (actually two) new real boss(es). You'll have hell of a time.

Gilorean wrote:S3rius, any chance on beautifying the map? It still feels dull, dry, empty and isolated in many, many areas

I add some details every now and then, but my resources are limited. I could just add hundreds of rotten corpses everywhere, but that'd also feel kind of dull. If you have concrete ideas what could be done with certain areas don't hesitate to post them.

PiscisKnight wrote:I hope serius take a look at this comments and post his feedback (yes serius! we want to know we are heard xD! haha)

I read through everything and I evaluate all feedback. I don't just bother to reply always

Another general thing: I saw a lot of proposions that would make the game easier (higher LoS, more ammo capacity, etc).
Excuse me if I don't add many of them, but I don't want the game to become too easy. For more LoS you have flares, for more item capacity take the scout, but everything must be in a reasonable limit.

About the LoS (Line of Sight) in particular: The maximum LoS that WC3 supports is 1800 units. At the moment most heroes are at 1400. There is not that much free room left. The LoS maximum can also not be avoided with items like Scope.

s3rius wrote:

Mishotaki wrote:i think i remember something about NOTD: as you advance, you get bonus damage but reduced health or something...
it's kinda in the lines of that...

You really want something like this?
I played NotD:AM a long time and I like the general idea of it, but it does make you very vulnerable to attacks, especially on higher difficulties. Remember that on hell, most attacks almost kill you.
If it's popular demand then I can change it, though. Not that I care if you die faster..

Gilorean wrote:Nice work creating a factory, would be nice to add a side-boss in it like the ones in RE5 but without the chainsaw and hooded mask.

I remember that one.. the Chainsaw Majini - that bitch killed me 5 times in a row on my first run-through!
Just now I am working on one (actually two) new real boss(es). You'll have hell of a time.

i think we're fine sir! no need to work on that then SIR!

i remember how i died the first time against the chainsaw majini: i was near the door and saw him coming berserk against me.... couldn't open the door in time... died...

Mishotaki wrote: he's always trying to find new ways to screw us... he's also saying that people with a lot of experience shouldn't have a huge advantage... so maybe he'll consider such a thing...

Yea he is!

Though really after playing so many games you don't need your character to be alot stronger than a pvt's after all you have Experience on your side

As for the side bosses. I'm a fan of it. Taking down bosses always has a soft spot in mah twisted heart

I think there is a Cult of potato bag wearing chainsaw wielding Majini.. I mean think about it.. They appear in South America.. and then WHAM there they are in Africa

Thank you for the reply, sir, and clarifying those points.

I'd like to know your opinion on the other parts of veterancy... The other stats that would rise as an officer progresses and (maybe) some drop slightly when you hit Brigadier General and only slightly drop from there to General... but also increase some other stats (like I said), such as critical and evasion.

I understand you don't want to imbalance the game and make it too easy, but I just thought that a small stat gain to officers would make a nice added incentive and morale boost to players to keep ranking up, and then it varies with the slight drop.

I'm not proposing you boost the stats immensely... but just so that the player feels the recognition of their promotion, other than a new rank title. I'm sure something could be found to make it a steady and balanced, but small growth in the stats over time of the rank-ups.

My thoughts are just that it would make it more interesting to get promotions, with a boost to either attack/ms/evasion/critical/hp (or even energy). Those are just the options I'm thinking of that would be interesting to look at for the idea. You have some stat gain for your hard work, which makes sense to me, but then at Brig. Gen., you have a chance to keep them from getting too powerful, by backing them up, in some areas...

My main reason for thinking this... is that it takes a lot of effort and time to rank up (especially as an officer), and I think that players deserve a little advantage for the time they've put into the map, at that point, as well as to keep a little more interest in earning promotions. Not a lot... but just enough to work into the saying, "it's the thought that counts."

The stats that are boosted don't need to be LoS. I see what you're saying there, but I still think that with age... eyesight loss is natural, so I still would like to hear your thoughts on Brig. Gen. to General LoS loss (by only a couple dozen points or something- not really noticeable, but just there).

I don't want to keep going on about it, and I'm sure you don't want me to, so if you don't like the idea, I'll drop it.

Thank you for your time, sir.

Off topic question: Why all those "Sir"? is it just some kind of over-respect to ppl u talk to, or just some role-playing-soldier-based way of writing?

not a critic... it just sound funny ^^

I use the word Sir from time to time. *shrugz* Don't see anything funny about it

S3rius, time to add new classes? Maybe something like Delta and MQ-9 Reaper.

Gilorean wrote:S3rius, time to add new classes? Maybe something like Delta and MQ-9 Reaper.

no way! i want the Backstabber and the Village Idiot!

as pr0xy said: taking down bosses is pretty fun in a way...

i feel like there is a lot less focus on bosses than in the earlier betas... we only got like 4 bosses that we take down in the game:
1- chopper boss
2- air drop/mid herbicide mission
3- hydra/plant
4- dogs

after that, the bosses feel quite a lot weaker with White's squad and the numerous mini-bosses....
i don't even dare of putting the reaper there, he's a high damage, fast moving unit, but you just have to get an engy/assman to net him or to run back from him to kill him fairly quickly without that much danger (if done properly) because you usually have plenty of firepower with the troops and the group...

that is why i feel like the demoman is kinda useless for his "created firepower" that he can amass over time... after he soloes a couple dogs, he can just give up making satchels and charges because the only time it's gonna be useful is when the racoons come... and then it's just a matter of time more than anything...

for a game that last in the 90 mins, there isn't that much challenges in therm of boss fights, where you have to act as a group to mow down an enemy that can take a LOT of punishment..

back in the days, there was all those bosses, but without the aftermath... reght now, i feel more overwhelmed by the numbers than by dangerous single enemies... especially when securing landing zones, all you think is to mow down enemies as much as you can so that the guys can escape... you're not that scared of the fatties, you're all high-level!

sorry if it sounds like whining

In nightmare, when u reach lima-zulu mission, having ur own nade launcher and ur high lvl, almost any class can own a fatty alone <____<

i agree, we need some good boss with its own skills (not just running and trying to melee hit u). So that every class skill counts on the fight... :/

of course, it would be wise when that boss fight comes, that there are not THAT many zombs spawn... otherwise u would get overwhelmed....

or maybe thats even better XD