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Remscar

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PostSubject: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Mon 04 Jan 2010, 03:35

First post, i joined just for this.
CLASSES:
There is already your basics like usual, Rifleman, Medic, Scout, Engineer, Machine Gunner, Advanced Marksman, ect.
Ive played the engineer class many times and i have found it lacking in the sense of building. Maybe this was not intended but there are a few things that should be looked into. Such as being able to build a health dispenser which will slowly heal nearby allies. This will allow engineers to heal allies when you need his team needs to hold down a location.
The Scout is a very nice class as well but a few tweaks could be beneficial. Currently, in the version i play the scout gets +4 movement speed per leveling up a skill (i forgot the name, its the one with boot icon, skill 3) Raising that to +5 will make the scout slightly faster, and it also emphasizes the scouts role of scouting and finding supplies for his platoon. (maybe your scouts dont do that but mine do.)
Medics also could use some minor tweaks. This may have been already discussed but adding a Revive skill at level 8 or something may help. I know there are CPR kits... but they are numbered. (maybe change the name to AED or Defibulator, i know how to do CPR without a kit, why does the Army need one) Increasing the medics armor by 1 point also would be good, makes the medic just a small amount stronger.
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New item suggestions.
I know there are the 3 classes of different ammunition, primary weapons, and secondary weapons. Despite this there is a very limited variety. There is the Ingram, the pump shotgun, ect... Adding a few more Class 1 and 2 secondary weapons would add a good variety, some suggestions are: Glock18c, Spas12.
Additionally, i am worried that the passive skill CRITICAL HIT, conflicts with the passive you get from AP bullets and flachet bullets. Do they both give you a chance to critical hit? In my past experiences with map making i have found that they DO NOT stack.
Maybe i am wrong.
Adding another healing item would also be nice, maybe a combination of medkit and first aid kit? Also raising stack limit of first aid kits to 7 or 8.
-----------------------------
Hotkeying the Menu differently may be nice. I know that i often have my keyboard hand floating above the keys QWEASDFRZ then im playing. Your menu is good as it is on D, but possibly changing it to Q and then putting reload to R drop mag to D sprint to Q or S would nice, maybe you can make 2 sets of hotkeys and allow the player to select (2 separate spell books) between what key set they like the most.
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Tooltips are great but could use slightly more detail. I noticed that after you kill the first hell spawn someone will say What was this monster we killed? That is bad grammar, or atleast it doesn't sound right.
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Overall i want to congratulate you on creating such a great map in WC3. I just wish people would host it more, i know i host it on both USWEST and USEAST. Maybe i can join your clan. Anyways Thanks for reading small wall of text!
Hoorah
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Mishotaki

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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Mon 04 Jan 2010, 05:24

engineer is a "team" player, he's there to provide ammo and mana regeneration for the whole team while also stunning and netting bosses... the healing role is only for the medic...

medics had revive as a skill before we got the CPR... early deaths met with the answer "i'm not high level enough" was causing way too much trouble.... adding it as a skill will make the game way too easy later on when you can swap out the chance to revive someone with more firepower because you got a skill... with the deagle skill, the medic can handle his own pretty well now...

having more low-level secondary weapons wouldn't be that useful, they would do the exact same thing so the only purpose would be to have more different names for weapons... not that useful to me...

the critical hits and items would work like this:
soldier with 10% critical hit, AP ammo and a barret (that the one that does crit right?)
1-soldier shoots
2-check for critical hit - fail
3-same bullet check for AP ammo critical hit - fail
4-same bullet check for barret critical hit - fail
5-normal damage

if any of steps 2-3-4 doesn't fail, it will trigger a critical hit and will not do the rest of the checks... so having multiple crit items will make you crit more often because the chances "stack" in a way...

s3rius takes suggestions for grammar and typos pretty well, feel free to take a screenshot of what should be changed and provide an alternative that sounds better and i'm sure he'll be happy to do it (as long as it's better, not worse Razz )
as many of us(me included) he's not natively english speaking, so he does his best to make it as good as possible...

feel free to visit us on channel "clan ZDC" on both US East and US West ^_^

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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Mon 04 Jan 2010, 05:55

Whats his native? I speak french as a second language, well it could be a first. I learned both at once. I think in english.

About the medics and stuff, i guess you have a point, its just i have never ever beaten the game, everyone dies because its too hard or we dont have enough firepower. Idk maybe i need to play with people who arent pvt.
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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Mon 04 Jan 2010, 06:37

Since Misho has already explained a few things, I'll leave some stuff out.


Remscar wrote:
i have found it lacking in the sense of building. Maybe this was not intended but there are a few things that should be looked into. Such as being able to build a health dispenser which will slowly heal nearby allies. This will allow engineers to heal allies when you need his team needs to hold down a location.
Unfortunately the Engi's spell book is already filled to the last slot. There isn't really much space for more skills. Also healing is the Medic's purpose, as Mish said. With his Sentry gun I think the Engi can definately support his team when trying to hold the ground.


Remscar wrote:
The Scout is a very nice class as well but a few tweaks could be beneficial. Currently, in the version i play the scout gets +4 movement speed per leveling up a skill (i forgot the name, its the one with boot icon, skill 3) Raising that to +5 will make the scout slightly faster, and it also emphasizes the scouts role of scouting and finding supplies for his platoon. (maybe your scouts dont do that but mine do.)
Yea, Scout is supposed to be played as either a item-finding Scout or a recon to pin-point enemies and improve the team's line of sight. There is a problem with too high move speeds though. Scout is already the best survivalist because there are close to no monsters that can catch up to him (even the nasty little red ghouls can't manage to get a hit off if the Scout's running away). Giving him even more ms could cause imbalances. And if I try to fix them by making enemies catch up easier then other classes will suffer, too.


Remscar wrote:
New item suggestions.
I know there are the 3 classes of different ammunition, primary weapons, and secondary weapons. Despite this there is a very limited variety. There is the Ingram, the pump shotgun, ect... Adding a few more Class 1 and 2 secondary weapons would add a good variety, some suggestions are: Glock18c, Spas12.
I guess I've been neglecting the low level weapons.. most items are level 3 and above. I might add one or two new ones, but as Mish said, as long as they don't have a different purpose it's kind of a waste.

Remscar wrote:
Adding another healing item would also be nice, maybe a combination of medkit and first aid kit? Also raising stack limit of first aid kits to 7 or 8.
Well, we have a Medkit and a First Aid Kit. Why'd we need a hybrid?


Remscar wrote:
Hotkeying the Menu differently may be nice. I know that i often have my keyboard hand floating above the keys QWEASDFRZ then im playing. Your menu is good as it is on D, but possibly changing it to Q and then putting reload to R drop mag to D sprint to Q or S would nice, maybe you can make 2 sets of hotkeys and allow the player to select (2 separate spell books) between what key set they like the most.
It's not about the spellbook, but all the spells. I'd have to make a copy of every spell that is supposed to have a different hotkey and integrate them into the script. That'd be several dozen of them.. no way.
However, you can make your own key map.
Check this out for a small tutorial: Click
As a former modder you shouldn't have any problems doing it yourself (esp. since you said the patch broke your maps = you've been using H2I = you've been a Jass coder = you actually know what you're doing).


Remscar wrote:
Tooltips are great but could use slightly more detail. I noticed that after you kill the first hell spawn someone will say What was this monster we killed? That is bad grammar, or atleast it doesn't sound right.
In earlier versions a lot of the tooltips were more detailed, containing more misc. information about the item / skill. But it seemed a burden to many people who read through it in search of the actual purpose of the item/skill. In such a fast paced game you don't have much time reading (plus the tooltip size, at least for items, is limited and I often hit the limit already).

Remscar wrote:
Overall i want to congratulate you on creating such a great map in WC3. I just wish people would host it more, i know i host it on both USWEST and USEAST. Maybe i can join your clan. Anyways Thanks for reading small wall of text!
Hoorah
Thanks.
Of course you're free to join our clan. On US East we're in the channel "Clan ZDC".


Remscar wrote:
Whats his native? I speak french as a second language, well it could be a first. I learned both at once. I think in english.
My native tongue is German. I've started learning English rather late (at the age of 12, I think) and didn't really have much interest in it until I began playing English games and watching English movies/series.
Plus I am pretty sloppy when it comes to writing (story) text for dotd.. just report any typos / arkward-sounding text passages to me and I'll fix 'em.

I think the line you're refering to is "What the hell was this monster?". Not quite as bad as you made it sound Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Mon 04 Jan 2010, 08:07

lol @ s3rius's new sig full article.... a bunch of weirdoes thinking silly stuff...

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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Mon 04 Jan 2010, 08:37

My maps are broken for more reason then H2I, and i think i forgot what H2I did, haven't coded for like a year.

I guess what i mean by more healing items is that there ARENT ENOUGH items around the map. Hundreds of times ive stormed a building just to find nothing. It gets annoying when there are hardly any items on the map. Sure it makes the game harder, but the game is already too hard.

game = map
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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Mon 04 Jan 2010, 19:19

Well, the only thing the patches broke are unsecure typecasting, with H2I (Handle to integer) being the most important of all of them. Some maps also broke because of stuff like U2I or T2I.
H2I was the thing everyone was using for indexing tools and stuff.. turns a handle (unit/item/whatever) into a unique number or vice versa.

....................
Anime is a prime example of why two nukes just weren't enough
Way to go, America!
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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Tue 05 Jan 2010, 05:03

OH, i beg you to release a new beta with a zoom out command.
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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Tue 05 Jan 2010, 05:11

its already in the beta

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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Tue 05 Jan 2010, 06:48

What is the command name?
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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Tue 05 Jan 2010, 07:51

-cam

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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Tue 05 Jan 2010, 08:14

Remscar wrote:
What is the command name?
I should have been more specific, it is already in the NEW beta. Beta 8

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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Tue 05 Jan 2010, 11:39

actually, i think the view is ok already now, lol...i can even see quite clearly in the night mission..though quite a lot of ppl asked abt it.
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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Tue 05 Jan 2010, 16:48

yes, but people always like options

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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Tue 05 Jan 2010, 21:49

The command will still be -cam. But you can then supply a optional parameter, e.g. -cam 3000 to set the distance to 3000.

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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Wed 06 Jan 2010, 12:40

Remscar, if it's too hard, play normal, Lol... its quite ok to find stuffs for me.

Dunno if any1 suggest a meelee class b4?.....

Gendarme/Paramilitary or Riot Police? Purpose: sorta tanker

Weapon: Baton (lower dmg)

Hp: higher a bit

Possible Skills:

Tear gas: effects of evasion, each level increase evasion chance

Vaccination: Active skill, for period of time, immune to negative buffs, if already contracted, this skill is useless, higher levels increase period of time. Useful for him since will be under attack often

Riot Shield: Develop higher hit points + a little armour

Sewer cap: Too heavy zombie attack force him to hide, immobile hiding

Anti-infection gas: Poisonous smoke for both dead and living, lol, was thinking of some self damaging skills...
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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Wed 06 Jan 2010, 18:39

so it's basically the firebat mixed with the armor skill of the assaultman instead of the armor aura...

....................
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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Wed 06 Jan 2010, 18:47

Mishotaki wrote:
so it's basically the firebat mixed with the armor skill of the assaultman instead of the armor aura...
Aaand without the flamethrower but with a stick :0

The Vanguard will be as close to a melee unit as there will ever be.

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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Sun 10 Jan 2010, 06:03

What about a Ripper Unit. A dude with heavy armor and a high tech chainsaw.
*BZZZZZZZZ* *Run* *nigga nigga* *run* *nigga nigga*
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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Sun 10 Jan 2010, 06:32

i think the chainsaw dude idea was shot down too :X
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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Sun 10 Jan 2010, 07:05

There's neither a good chainsaw model or good game mechanics to support it as a main weapon. Also, militaries don't go to war with chainsaws.. read the zombie survival guide and you'll know that a chainsaw shouldn't be your weapon of choice.

I considered the idea of a chainsaw skill to cut down trees + zombies, but it died because Wc3 is technically unable to implement the kind of base skill I'd need for that.

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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Sun 10 Jan 2010, 11:14

lol @ S3r's sig I just noticed that. Yea I'd play with the Riot shield dude but thats just because I'm odd like that >.> shield bashing zombies..makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

As English is my Native Lang I can always help if in need though Honestly S3R seems to know it better than a lot of people whos native lang is english

....................

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PostSubject: Re: Class Tweaks + New Items + New Hotkeys + Tooltips   Wed 12 May 2010, 17:41

hmm i dont know about you but why don we put pistols in the game? a left and right pisto so you could cary bots .... lvl 1 pistol rises dmg by 10 and left by 8 .... and so on so we would have a pist lvl 5 that has +20 dmg and atack speed an another lvl 4 lets sy +10 dmg and critical or something .... Razz would also help alot ... and about armors how about some armors like combat boots that increse atack speed and prevent leg fractures .... or armplates that prevent arm fracture .... helms for eye damage (not permanet jsut decres the chances of getting them) .... something like patches that slow bleeding of units for a while ....( or make a permanet item that slow the bleding of the one that wears it) ..... a radar item ... u palce it an it show units in 2000 range of it:P dosent reveal map Razz show just theu nits ..... or a com stations ... call for help :p something like unit drop ... or a transport of units at that location Razz or something like that Razz (of course u cant control the units and they dont move out of a 1000 radius of the position u caled) or a scouting item that cales a drone palin that hovers over a position for 120 seconds revealing a 500 area;P i got many ideas man ... if i were to make u a list and send it to you ... it would take at leas a mont (or more) to read it :p + i got lots of zombie ideas alos :p if you interest contact me Razz


Last edited by adi1axel on Wed 12 May 2010, 17:47; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : more ideas)
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